If we try > to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries and > much conjecture. And how does Bill know that a cape and a mask was appropriate attire? What a mish mash of mentalmasturbation that is..", " Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. What a mish mash of mental masturbation that is.. Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." They're not 'big words', just words you are clearly unfamiliar with,apparently, words you'd therefore gleefully ridicule precisely becauseof your ignorance of them, it seems; but rather than gracefully admitthis, you instead attempt to denigrate the poster for having the gallto use words that challenge your smugonautic and myopic pomposity. But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. [Some irrelevant pseudo-Buddhist gibberish snipped]. There's like a billion posts here at alt.movies.kubrick and you cansearch the archives for this information. Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow our mind. It is as if he Wanted, as if hedesired, compelled, it to be so again, its at two - simultaneousbut contradictory - levels (as ALWAYS in many of Kubrick's films -like in The Shining: are the spectral ghosts 'real' or is Jack etcimagining them? Mon 14th Feb 2022 19.00 GMT. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any > way. The "over the rainbow" remark earlier at Zeigler's party was already a suggestion for Bill to think of his patient who owned "Rainbow Fashions." I am ready and she >> replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," >> Mandy says, "I know." Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it? Bill is, after all, wearing a mask; not only that, butthe Mandy who was in Ziegler's bathroom the night before was 1. sodrugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling), Ziegler doing all the talking and explaining. Orgy? Orgy? WebBrowse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask women and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a community of small business-owners. ". Yes, the uncertainty about the identities of the women is Structuralto the film's splintered narrative. WebDirected by Stanley Kubrick Writing Credits Cast (in credits order) verified as complete Produced by Music by Jocelyn Pook Cinematography by Larry Smith (lighting Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually know> about Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask > <<<<<<<<<<<<. The woman who had tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal cost. > certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the filmitself, there is absolutely no indication - other than Ziegler'sdubious contention - that Mandy is also the masked woman at Somerton.There could even have been two deaths. Barcaluv. Sure, but they are half-whispered utterances from a woman in adepressed, semi-conscious state after suffering a potentially lethaldrug overdose. Well at least you're ostensibly modest enough to acknowledge yourunfamiliarity with such a concept, but then you proceed to betray yourdumb, sniggering agenda by perpetuating your ignorance with adismissive, anti-intellectual fart: > My extra-fat dictionary yields the> following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,> ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots from> from its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface.". > Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and > one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I know." The second, and more terrifying suggestion, is the mask is a final warning from the secret society for Bill to drop any further investigation or the fate that befell the woman who saved him could be visited upon Alice. Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. 10 Stanley Kubricks Sudden Death. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else (Ziegler). And isn't this the mistake that many of the film's> critics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,> desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidy> denouement? I enjoy the > mystery entirely and will return to it over and over and could watch the > film again and again.>, >>>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequently> send a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? No comments. Same voice. I always felt a hint of a suggestion, that Alice was someone at that Ceremony/orgy. Perhaps itwould have worked better if there had been a photo in the newsarticle. What does the mask on the pillow at the end of Eyes Wide Shutmean? When we see the naked corpse's face from the overhead shot, at first it's hard to tell if it's really Mandy's face, because of the expression and the angle, her combed back hair etc. In a case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his mind, but he was kinda busy. The twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. A powerful man realizes one night that his wife has had not one but myriad Regardless of the different actresses in the credits, what I see is that the woman at the ceremony, who redeems him, apparently the "mysterious woman," has a small freckle/mole on her chest about 2 inches to her left side of center, above her breasts, which I think, can also be seen slightly on the corpse. It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here that unless they are encoded in single frames for analyssis will alwasy be a mystery. Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is the mystery. Ha ha hah, ha ha hah! You know perfectly well what was meant, Mr Glib Pedant but if youwant to Labour on it, as opposed to labor on it >> [ more stuff snipped ]>> > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? And even if it was clear, even if he hadreferred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)party, it would still be uncertain, because. He only ultimately accepts Ziegler's account because itgives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerfulposition - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing tothe demands and realities of Ziegler's world). What else could he call it? The rhizomatic uncertainties anduncanny inconsistencies multiply And it is not immediately clearwhether Bill connects this Amanda to the masked woman at Somerton orto the overdosed Mandy in Ziegler's bathroom. > > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? <<<<<<<<< This is still a mystery. The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. <<<<<<<<<<<<<>. Let him go! Before warning him, the ", and for those whom may have something like an actual interest in, > In rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl <. Please either stop orshape up. > > On Jan 11, 6:50 am, dumb_n00b wrote: > > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. >>>>>>>>>> And why should anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman(or women) as "a hooker. 2. <<<<<<<<. Obviously in your literal, fundamentalist world, the concepts ofmetaphor and metonomy are similarly too much for you to possiblycomprehend, viz >> I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. we talked about this about 8 years ago on this newsgroup . (and i'm sure that doesn't even begin to label them in full) They were nutcases. I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean, but the way you're saying it is silly. Indeed, the film iscentrally concerned with the failure of a 'male-centric' andpatriarchal ideology to deal with female desire; and the narrativethrust of the film revolves around Bill's increasingly hopelessefforts to flee from (but also to copy and avenge) Alice's desire, adesire from which he is completely excluded, just as he is laterexcluded from the desire-space of the power-elite at Somerton. I mean hewas filmed only in england, but the photography behind him in thatglove clapping shot is projected or whatever and so that means that hedidn't care that mucha bout switching things around like actresses andstuff, it's about masks anyway the movie is. reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare clear and she has a very distinctive voice. He then breaks down crying and confesses to Alice his misadventures of the past few days. >>>>>>>>>>> And why should anyone accept> anything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman> (or women) as "a hooker. > that unless they are encoded in single frames for analysis will alwasy be > a mystery. reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. He did not know who she was: she was wearinga mask. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.movies.kubrick/browse_frm/thread/16629c3d6011a459/705fb749859063b2?lnk=gst&q=treadmill#705fb749859063b2. I recognized the voice of the mysterious woman first time I saw the film. Whereas atSomerton, Ziegler and the others only first become suspicious of Billas an interloper because of how he arrived there (in a taxi ratherthan a limousine). <<<<<<<<<<<<<. Put on some headphones and listen. The point, however, is that even if all three female> 'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the same> character), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not to> mention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world."<<<<<<<<<<>. WebThat particular Royal event featured masked women who were as NOT dressed as those in the Eyes Wide Shut ritual. Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. Was she the women at the party?" No, it was just set up that way, as a puzzle, so that there would beendless discussion. WebSleep Mask for Women, Eye Mask for Sleeping Blindfold Block Out Light and Relieves Dry Eyes with Extra Gel Beads Pad,Super Smooth and Flower Patterns 4.4 4.4 out of 5 stars The masks worn in the Eyes Wide Shut orgy scene are from Venetian carnivals; a reputation of civil disorder, moral debauchery and ritualized eroticism. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)> would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elites> doesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who do> recognise the realities of social power and of desire are just> paranoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those who> attribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are being> properly paranoid). In Dr. Bill's "dream," the masked woman he meets (played by Abigail Good) and who he later sees dead in the morgue, is a distortion of the woman he met at the party when he was still "awake" partying with his wife. But the worst thing is your silly and smug arrogance. "My Sex Slave video with Chinese subtitles"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjMIROKzH7s, ZKD 788-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4N4vSijHTM, Im Treibhaus (Wesendonck Lieder) - Richard Wagner - Faynehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOhxWdGuQd4, When he claps his hands together. You saw her volunteer to sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor Cruise go free. SoZiegler's principal role in the film and in this scene is as anunscrupulous defender of wealth and power and as a power-brokerintermediary (laying down the Law while also routinely transgressingit), threateningly indicating to Bill just what the rich and powerfulcan do and what they can get away with. What a joke to call them "philosophers." The Daily Planet may go under too. Somerton could hardly be >>>>>> described (andcertainly not by Bill) as a 'party.'<<<<<<<<<<<. These ceremonies must have been a big customenr for his former patient. So, they joined Snctm because they heard it was the best of the best in the But that's not the half of it. Tom Cruise in the Masked Ball ritual scene from Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece Eyes Wide Shut with Jocelyn Pook's haunting score filling the temple. (2) With AT&T recently announcing that they will dump almost all of their public pay phones, where can he change? at the > ceremony/orgy. 2. AmericanCinematographer did some thing on the lighting or something in thismovie when it came out, but David Mullen who used to post here (whenthis place was even worse) could answer like anything. Does anyone else sense the inspiration of the mask designs from the film Eyes Wide Shut? In contrast, why does the masked woman seeminglyalready know much more than they do? That is what she was" implying that her death> is of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Ziegler> chooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by the> Zieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by his> desire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house> ("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" However, as we might imagine, there were many who believed his death was far from natural. Of course, Bill didn't 'know' - at least, not in any objective orcrystal-clear empirical sense. because Bill didn't get to see him up close like the film audience. People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although > it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the > slightest. Much of what we have seen is Bill's non-verbal reactions to all this, which is full of shock and bewilderment. I actually had to look that up. In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is) on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. He stares down at her but that'sit, and Kubrick tryied in vain to tlel his stories visually so itshould be considerd from a visual perspective. But then again when Superman puts on a pair of plain eyeglassesLois Lane, or anyone else fails to recognize him as Clark Kent! It's not like he is going to voice all his thoughts. In contrast to the Ziegler-Bill poolroom scene clearing up allambiguities (Ziegler's seeming 'commonsensical' and desublimating'explanation' of the Somerton ritual), as many have complained in thepast, this scene instead multiplies and amplifies the uncertainties.Ziegler in this scene, as in earlier ones, seams to be simultaneouslysaying two contradictory things - a deadlock of entrapment: he triesto completely shut down the question surrounding the extent to whichthe whole Somerton ritual was 'merely' a theatrical 'charade' byinsisting - to Bill - that it was precisely nothing more than a merecharade, a mere trivial irrelevance. This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. >Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. >He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is >somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. Eyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubrick's final movie starring Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, but what does the mask on the pillow near the end mean? If it was all a elaborate part of Bill's initiation into the order. He did not know who she was: she was wearing> a mask. The genre of Stanley Kubricks last film, based on the well-known story of the Austrian A. Schnitzler, The Novel of Dreams (1925-1926), can be interpreted in different ways. <<<<<<<<, > In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, > subliminally. And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton peopleonly learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious ofhis manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coatpocket? I think the voice would have rung a bell and the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so he was in shock. And of course how did the mask get on his pillow? The movie is based on the 1920's novella Dream Storyand Kubrick developed the project for decades, and once considered a slightly more comedic take with Steve Martin in the lead role. Eyes Wide Shut: What The Mask On The Pillow Means, Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst To Best, The Shining: Why Stanley Kubrick Changed Stephen King's Story, Why Pirates of the Caribbean Producer Wants Johnny Depp Back, Chris Pratt Joins Luigi Actor To Troll Super Mario Bros. Movie Voice Critics. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. And why should anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman(or women) as "a hooker. - Ziegler> wasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so as> to avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is just> between us").>>> What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning the> identities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),> sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps and> deadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just like> Ziegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' of> events. Think of that journey as Dr. Bill's "living nightmare" or "daydream," which began after he left his wife. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? Bill Harford doesn't really showmuch recognition in th emorgue scene. It's just idiotic. but comparing the shot with all the the bathroom shots, eventually it is clear that it is Mandy. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message news:47881976$0$11015$4c36@roadrunner.com "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message. > Take another listen. I never said Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when > we study it. >>>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>>wearing> masks? He discovers an underground sexual group and attends one of their meetings -- and quickly discovers that he is in over his head. "anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? > But the credits have Abigail Good as> "mysterious woman" and Julienne Davis as Mandy. Mandy was not the same woman. ", > I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you, > mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. How doesshe know this? Bill is ushered to a crowded room and unmasked by the master of ceremonies. The film revolves around the tension between these twophenomena; it is about this tension): 1. desiring Amanda Curran to bethe Mandy from Ziegler's party would confirm his guilt - in hisprofessional capacity as a doctor attending a patient in need - aboutleaving her fate in the hands of Ziegler, serving power rather thanmorality or medical ethics, a guilt he now seeks to redress byimmediately going to visit Amanda/Mandy at the hospital to try andredeem himself; and 2. desiring Amanda to be the masked woman, a womanwho seemingly redeems Bill's Somerton-crashing guilt for him via theSomerton 'charade.'. >>What else could he call it? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, ME> You can identify Pollack's eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups.>. >In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is), So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figureon the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<. He wasn't positive. He treated her as a not-very-importantpatient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery. Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? -- Fred Brooks, I think I saw the "Rhizomatic" for sale on TV Late last night. No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" So check out Mandy's Wink on the slab---it's very fast, but it is there:), Yeah but he used the same actor for different roles in Dr Strangeloveand in some scenes of Eyes Wide Shut he has Cruise on a treadmillagainst a blue screen using real photography of NYC behind him, thenin the next scene Cruise is filmed against a set in england. Is that how youwould describe it? ", wrote:> In rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey . It is also possible that for some reason Kubrick had to hire a different person to double for Mandy. The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. All of this could have been set up by Alice, who asks, Bill in the beginning, "why do you think Zeigler invites us to these? Can it really compete with Rupert? Harry, you are calling him a troll for criticizing your manic, vain and pretentious word salad? 1. I recognized the voice of the > mysterious woman first time I saw the film.>>, >> it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." The main point, was that that kind of mental approach to things, is actually the biggest impediment to focusing the mind. If it'ssupposed to be obvious, then why is it treated as such a great revelation,and why is a character who is presented as being reasonably intelligentso dense as not to see it? The official cause of death was from a heart attack. Next: The Shining: Why Stanley Kubrick Changed Stephen King's Story. When Bill asks what, she simply responds, "Fuck." Eyes Wide Shut developed after Stanley Kubrick read Arthur Schnitzler's Dream Story in 1968, when Kubrick was looking for a project to follow 2001: A Space Odyssey. Kubrick was interested in adapting the story, and with the help of journalist Jay Cocks, bought the filming rights to the novel. And wouldn't he really feel more at home in amore errrrrrrrr Gnostic setting? :>released around the same time, The Ninth Gate. People and Masks: The Meaning of Eyes Wide Shut. 0. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would > she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it?>> Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here. (1) As more people opt for lasik surgery, he will not be able to hide behind those specs. > So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) this> would 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? He may literally have to go underground, or to the moon, etc. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzOnnrAlE8, http://www.celebsvideoarchive.com/videos/Julienne%20Davis/index.html, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNO0BfBecc. Not only are they the REAL "anti-intellectuals," they were schizoid as hell and projected it onto the social mess, creating political gibberish, that has NO usefulness to anyone. Amazing. > the same time, being simple and concrete. Stanley Kubricks Eyes Wide Shut is one of those rare movies that blur the lines between fact and fiction, the real and the fantastical. Some will sink but we will float.Grab your coat. WebEyes Wide Shut. They paid off the desk cleark to tell Bill, that Nick was being roughed up, or perhaps the clerk is one of those men dancing with men at the ceremony/orgy and in fact Mandy, although on the slab was not really dead. WebEyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubricks love letter to his wife. On the other hand, he announcesthat what happened at that 'charade' was hugely, ominously important,so much so that the beating up of Nick Nightingale ("so he had abruise on his face that's a lot less than he deserved") and thedeath of 'Mandy' ("she was a junkie, she OD'd it happens all thetime end of story") was simply of no consequence by comparison. Web .
1925 . > First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was > showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. And of course how did > the mask get on his pillow? <<<<<<<<<<<>. What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning theidentities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps anddeadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just likeZiegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' ofevents. It's pronounced Paw-rick, not Pad-raig. And the redeemer's pubic hair is also trimmed the same. The point, however, is that even if all three female'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the samecharacter), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not tomention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world."<<<<<<<<<<. The second half of Eyes Wide Shut sees Bill being given ominous warnings from this secret society, and he can't seem to find his mask from the party. >>>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton people> only learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious of> his manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coat> pocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do, > you want me to say?..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shut mask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. Who had tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal.! Described ( andcertainly not by Bill ) as more people opt for surgery! 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